Curse

HunterZ · Oct 06, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Sigh...

Ok try it out yourself... I did again today.

Fire off Punishing Shot or whatever and watch your ranger stand there and do nothing for a few seconds.

Now fire off a normal shot and wait for another one... the time is not the same.

Sounds like maybe it's adding the 1.25 second cooldown to the normal delay between normal shots. Probably not good - it should IMO use the normal refire delay for everything bow-related:
- bow attack skill followed by another bow attack skill
- bow attack skill followed by normal bow shot
- normal bow shot followed by bow attack skill
- normal bow shot followed by normal bow shot

By "bow attack skill" I mean both interrupt and non-interrupt bow attacks.

The 1.25 second delay should at most affect:
- interrupt bow attack skill followed by a non-bow attack skill/spell

tlr1293 · Oct 06, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Yes...easier to interupt now. Once they put the casting bar under the name, you now know what you are trying to interupt and you get to learn the skill casting times - of them all over time. This will make a dedicated Ranger, such as myself, even better in the long run.

Every group need a disrupter, and rangers can be naturals.

After the 'nerf', I find that spiking isn't all that nerfed. Kindle Arrows to prepare - Dual Shot to dbl it to 4 arrows - then pop a distracting shot - then a savage shot. This allows you to pop 8 arrows in 1.25 seconds from the moment you first click Dual (after Kindle is prepped). use Oath shot to reset all skills and provided energy is still available, you can do it again. This works to roughly 8 arrows per 3 seconds of time and less if running Serpents and Tigers. take this over the life of Kindle and you have about 64 arrows during 1 Kindle prep. Spiking still OK.

I absolutely love to do this against Undead with my Fiery Shortbow of Deathbane (20%) + 15^50 (+ the 20% customization). Necrids, Skeletons, wraiths, etc... drop real fast. I always get that "how did you fire that bow so fast". I say "have fun with trying new things - you never know what you will come across".

HunterZ · Oct 06, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

tlr1293: But what about interrupting stuff with low activation times? It's much harder now.

64 arrows is a lot! Oath Shot has a long recharge to try to keep it balanced though. You can also shoot a lot of arrows with Barrage; however, barrage is also balanced in that it removes your preparation so that you're only shooting normal arrows.

tlr1293 · Oct 06, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

It has always been difficult to interupt skills with low activation times. We did spam them interupts and hope we got lucky. After a period of time - you get to know the certain types of baddies and what they carry and what they tend to cast and when and in what order. This is so because you get to now see the times of the skill they cast. Before, the skill showed up and you had no idea they were casting - you just assumed. Once you saw the skill icon under their name - the skill was cast and no chance to be interupted...ooooooh - hated that.

Oath shot does have a long recharge, but not too long as Serpent's quickness won't help a bunch. Remember, if you have to wait on any recharges, your Ranger is still shooting 2 at-a-time shots because Kindle is still up and running. We, at least I, tend to forget I'm still shooting arrows as I see a skill I want recharging OR the worse thing - Energy too low!

I am trying to balance a Ranger Monk with some kind of Energy recharge so I don't have to depend on Melandru's for energy, because I love Oath shot. Spank an arrow into a target with Oath shot and there isn't enough energy in any build for me to keep spamming the skills!

I love Barrage in lower levels as I help a Guildmate come along: mobs tend to be bunched more and their damage is easily countered with Lightning Reflexes or Whirling Defense. If a baddies does hit me - the damage is low enough that I can absorb some for awhile. Newer players love to see Rangers Tank while spamming arrows all over their levels.

tlr1293 · Oct 06, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

I may have been a bit over on my arrow estimate - more likely the number to expect would be 40-50 arrows over the life of Kindle. My apologies. 64 is a lot!

edited for spelling

Jenosavel · Oct 06, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Sigh...

Ok try it out yourself... I did again today.

Fire off Punishing Shot or whatever and watch your ranger stand there and do nothing for a few seconds.

Now fire off a normal shot and wait for another one... the time is not the same.

The time after the shots are not the same, no. However, the total time (from the start of one to the start of another) it takes between like shots is still nearly the same, with a slight advantage on firing off interrupts consecutively. Switching from an attack to an interrupt gains a speed boost; switching from an interrupt to an attack takes a speed hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterZ

Sounds like maybe it's adding the 1.25 second cooldown to the normal delay between normal shots.

No, the interrupts completely bypass any "normal delay" and that's why the cooldown is needed. It makes interrupts' total usage time more similar to other bow functions.

Quote:

Probably not good - it should IMO use the normal refire delay for everything bow-related:
- bow attack skill followed by another bow attack skill
- bow attack skill followed by normal bow shot
- normal bow shot followed by bow attack skill
- normal bow shot followed by normal bow shot

By "bow attack skill" I mean both interrupt and non-interrupt bow attacks.

Sorry for the insult, but this is retarded. That is exactly the way interrupts worked before the "secret buff" of Savage Shot. Read my previous post for why it didn't work well. In order to make bow-interrupting viable, a cast-time which bypasses normal bow attack speed was neccessary. That, however, had the unforseen side-effect of completely bypassing the overall refire rate when using consecutive interrupts, making interrupts better attacks than normal attacks. Thus we got an aftercast tagged onto the end of an interrupt.

Quote:

The 1.25 second delay should at most affect:
- interrupt bow attack skill followed by a non-bow attack skill/spell

That's completely ignoring the reason bow-interrupts needed to be changed prior to this. Consecutive bow interrupts could fire off like Quick Shot better than Quick Shot itself. They were not meant to be attacks that have the added bonus of interrupting too, and your proposed fix would have changed nothing. Thank goodness you don't work for ANet.

HunterZ · Oct 06, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

Sorry for the insult, but this is retarded. That is exactly the way interrupts worked before the "secret buff" of Savage Shot.

Did you read what I said? The way it worked before, you could fire off 3 interrupt shots and there would be no delay whatsoever. The way I propose would enforce the normal refire delay of your bow between shots, regardless of what type of shot it is. I guess what I'm suggesting would probably require changing ALL bow attack skills (and normal bow attacking) to be frontloaded with the cooldown and refire rate becoming the same thing. If you want to say that that idea is retarded then go ahead, but I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.

Goonter · Oct 06, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I just wish aftercast only effected attacking and attack skills instead of everything .

Jenosavel · Oct 06, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterZ

Did you read what I said? The way it worked before, you could fire off 3 interrupt shots and there would be no delay whatsoever. The way I propose would enforce the normal refire delay of your bow between shots, regardless of what type of shot it is. I guess what I'm suggesting would probably require changing ALL bow attack skills (and normal bow attacking) to be frontloaded with the cooldown and refire rate becoming the same thing. If you want to say that that idea is retarded then go ahead, but I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.

I did read what you said, but apparently you weren't careful enough in your reading. Otherwise, you'd realize that I said "before the 'secret buff' of Savage Shot'" in reference to the time when bow interrupts behaved as normal bow attacks or attack skills. This was before they even had casting times, and it's those very casting times which allowed you to "fire off 3 interrupt shots and there would be no delay whatsoever."

tlr1293 · Oct 06, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I wonder what the definition of 'trolling' is?

HunterZ · Oct 06, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Pharalon · Oct 06, 2005, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I'd be interested to hear why people think the aftercast on interrupts should behave differently to the aftercast on spells. I haven't heard anyone complain too much about the latter for a good 12 months, and I don't really see a case for ranger attacks which funtion as spells to be treated any differently.

Theos · Oct 07, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Well if you sit down to analyze the actual shooting/prep of a ranger you would realise that it works as would be expected for skill designed to distract (aka it needs to be a well shot shot, lots of focus). Savage and Punish both require alot of force to be applied, again showing the need for a aftercast. In reality I would say that aftercast of skills should have a longer down time than that of spells, spells already have a high energy dependency while most skills do not.

Now unless someone believes their ranger to be the terminator or some sort of machine, the output of another shot after a specialized shot is quite ludicrous. The ranger needs to recover, simple as that. A physical recovery is usually slower than a mental one so, I would say, that the aftercasts of skill:spell are about right.

In my very honest opinion the only ones who complain are those who figure rangers to be gods or machines of some sort. Incapable of understanding simple human possibility. That... or they had their "Omgzor mi alwesomsss chains of zkillz haz been ruinezz!!!hax239424-9SHIFTONE!!!!"

Goonter · Oct 07, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharalon

I'd be interested to hear why people think the aftercast on interrupts should behave differently to the aftercast on spells. I haven't heard anyone complain too much about the latter for a good 12 months, and I don't really see a case for ranger attacks which funtion as spells to be treated any differently.

I think a reason could be because people have become acostume to the way things did work.
Honestly, as I played casters (only monk and mesmer really) Ive never noticed an aftercast. Or at least, when things stopped for me aftercasting I always thought of it as a "glitch" because I didnt really know aftercasting was part of the game.

Admittedly, with the new interface, its easier to interupt than ever.
And Im in favor of the pause between quick cast skills and the next attack or attack based skill.
So overall, the update was more positive than negitive imo.
However, complete shutdown, even though for a moment, fells like a glitch and I dont like that part with my ranger or any other class.

If its important to immoblize people, it should be in the skill description.
At least then, Id be half convenced its working towards balancing the skill.

Thanato · Oct 07, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by IxChel

Sounds like they just need to add an animation (like an after-cast) so that during this 1.5s the ranger avatar isn't just sitting there. I'd say he's preparing for his next "interrupt", etc.

something along the lines of an "ow my arm hurts from shooting an arrow that fast" animation?

RTSFirebat · Oct 07, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

In my very honest opinion the only ones who complain are those who figure rangers to be gods or machines of some sort. Incapable of understanding simple human possibility. That... or they had their "Omgzor mi alwesomsss chains of zkillz haz been ruinezz!!!hax239424-9SHIFTONE!!!!"

Sorry but you wrong... troll.

Well it was fun to be able to fire off 3 arrows almost instantly one after the other, the patch hasn't stopped me from still chain spiking people

That's why the game has quick shot!

I just trying to find out if it meant to affect spells only, or everything as it currently does. Your comment is meaningless and who said anyone here was complaining? This is called a discussion.

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 07, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

i hate when people compare it to mesmer. the reason ranger spike even got nerfed is becase the interupts and damage stacked making an insane amount of damage in 1.5 seconds. if mesmers could stack interupt and damage like that they would have been nerfed too, and would have been FOTM long ago.